We’re Talking About a Criminal Gang

Created: 01.12.2004 16:43 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 18:48 MSK, 12 hours 30 minutes ago

Ilya Zhegulev

Gazeta.Ru
http://www.mosnews.com/interview/2004/12/01/ukrgang.shtml

Ukraine’s opposition will insist on an international probe into the alleged involvement of several high-placed Russian nationals in election rigging in Ukraine, Yuri Karmazin, an opposition MP and Viktor Yushchenko’s envoy to the Supreme Rada, told Gazeta.Ru, without openly naming the culprits. He also commented on the ongoing examination of the opposition’s appeal to annul the Nov. 21 presidential results by the Supreme Court.

What do you think of your opponents’ moves in response to the proceedings launched to revise the presidential election results?

They [the Central Election Commission and Viktor Yanukovich’s campaign staff] are deliberately protracting the process, saying they need time to study the papers, and at the same time they say: “In general, everything is absolutely correct, except two or three paragraphs that you have amended.”

They are playing for time so as to pressure Ukraine, threatening it with a referendum [on the introduction of self-rule in the eastern provinces of the country]. Regarding the Supreme Rada’s session where the proposal to annul the voting results was examined, they were the ones who were interested in it, not us. Have you noticed how unanimously they [pro-Yanukovich factions] voted? Moreover, on certain issues our faction abstained from voting, while they voted because that was what they needed.

They were afraid, and they needed to cover up the traces of the crime. The head of the Central Election Commission Sergei Kivalov has just ordered that absentee ballots be archived, which means he wants to destroy any evidence. For our part, we want to see the absentee ballots, because we have samples of blank absentee ballots that were offered for sale here on Kreshchatik (Kiev’s main thoroughfare) for 20 hryvnas.

But that is not all. We have samples of absentee ballots printed in Russia and I think that will raise a very serious issue for international institutions to probe, including those who are in charge of prosecuting international criminals, because, I believe, there is an organized criminal grouping on an international scale involved in the Ukrainian crisis — a Ukrainian-Russian criminal gang.

Those ballots were printed in Russia, but they contain a mistake and it would only take me a second to say which of the ballots were printed in Russia, and which in Ukraine. I will not say what the difference is; so far this is a secret. But this amounts to a serious crime against the people of Ukraine, which is likely to considerably deteriorate the relationship between the two countries even on the domestic level.

What evidence do you plan to present to the Supreme Court? Will you produce the false ballots?

Yes, we will present them. But we are not interested in protracting the proceedings; we would like the political crisis to end as soon as possible.

On Sunday Yulia Timoshenko presented an ultimatum to Leonid Kuchma where, among other things she demanded a quick examination of Yushchenko’s challenge of the official election results. On Monday, at 10 p.m., the ultimatum expired. What measures do you plan to take if the proceedings are deliberately delayed?

Nobody issued any ultimatums to the court. This is the first point. Secondly, on Tuesday, I called on the Committee for National Salvation and persuaded them not to picket the court building. And so, there are no pickets there, which means that no pressure can be exerted on the judicial authorities, whatever the circumstances.

What ruling do you expect from the Supreme Court? Lately, it has passed several rulings that did not favor the incumbent authorities. Does that mean the judges can be described as truly independent?

Today we see people’s trust in the Supreme Court increasing rapidly, and this is very good. There are grounds to believe that the judges have been immune to the enormous pressure exerted by the presidential administration. We have evidence of some colossal pressure. Just recently [President Leonid Kuchma’s chief of staff] Viktor Medvedchuk met Supreme Court officials.

I can tell you a secret: [the Kuchma administration] plans to hold a solemn off-site session of the Supreme Rada in the east, and his staff tried to persuade the Supreme Court not to object to it.

There is virtually no judge in the Supreme Court who has not been pressured. They were either offered money, or their children, relatives, family members were threatened. Of course, such things are hard to resist. Our witnesses are also being pressured. Even the representatives of our branches in Donetsk and Lugansk Regions were stopped from getting to Kiev to bring all the necessary evidence of vote rigging!

On Monday, before the very eyes of the chairman of the Party of the Homeland’s Defenders, his son was beaten up and sustained serious head injuries. He is now in the hospital. His car was also damaged, but the man, nonetheless, found the strength to drive all the way to Kiev, because he had to bring documentary evidence of the crime committed on Oct. 31 [during the first round of the election].