Transcript of the Yushchenko-Yanukovych TV Debate, 15 November 2004

From UT1,
translated by BBC Monitoring

[Moderator Yuriy Melnychuk] Good evening, dear viewers. You are watching live TV debates between two presidential candidates. They are presidential candidate Viktor Yanukovych, I am introducing him first because according to the draw he will speak first, and Viktor Yushchenko, also a presidential candidate.

Before we begin the debates proper, I would like to explain how they will be conducted. The rules are as follows. The debates proper consist of six sections. Each candidate has the right to an introductory statement. This statement can be no longer than three minutes. After that, four blocks of issues will be discussed: social policy, the economy, domestic policy and foreign policy. They will be discussed in that order because it has been set by the Central Electoral Commission's decree No 1204 of 12 November on the second round of election, [which outlines] what the participants can and cannot do. After each candidate is finished speaking, they can pose questions to each other but only within the scope of the topic discussed, in accordance with part seven of the rules on presidential debates. If one of the candidates runs out of time, this means 10 minutes each on one topic for which 20 minutes are allocated [in total], then obviously there is no time for questions. A candidate has the right refuse to answer a question which he does not want to answer or if he thinks the question does
not need to be answered. The moderator of the debates is responsible for monitoring the time candidates spend answering. The candidates must obey the rules, in particular, follow the moderator's instructions concerning the time limit on questions and answers. The moderator may not break the rules of the debates, be biased or favour one of the candidates, or make statements which can be perceived as campaigning for any one candidate. I hope this will not happen.

Now, I would like candidates to pay attention. We have two clocks, one for each candidate. I have a control panel and as soon as I say that one of you can make an introductory statement, I will start the clock for that
candidate. As soon as he finishes, in order to save time, I will simply start the other candidate's clock at once and he can begin his introductory statement. Representatives of both candidates agreed on the random draw and it resulted in
the following. The candidate who is first to make an introductory statement will be second to make a closing statement. This is all I have to say, if you have any questions before the debates which can last no longer than 100 minutes, please ask them. Viktor Fedorovych, do you have any questions?

[Yanukovych] No questions.

[Melnychuk] Viktor
Andriyovych, do you have any questions.

[Yushchenko] Thank you, no I do not.

[Melnychuk] Good, then please get ready, Viktor Fedorovych has the right to make an introductory statement, the debate begins.

Opening shots

[Yanukovych] Good evening, dear viewers. Good evening, dear voters. Dear friends! I have come to this debate straight from the Cabinet of Ministers. I have spent almost the entire presidential campaign at work, so to speak. Especially the first half. I was hesitating whether to participate in debates or not, but after receiving your numerous letters and requests to meet you and share my thoughts what I have experienced during my work at the cabinet of ministers and during the election campaign, I changed my mind and I am here today, to tell you the truth, to tell you what I have wanted to say recently to all those citizens of Ukraine, to all our multiethnic Ukrainian people. I am a new person here in Kiev, in what is called the upper echelons of power. I have always lived and worked in my region in different jobs. All the time, I've been thinking why has it occurred in our country that we used to be a strong, a mighty state, and then overnight we
became poor. And all those alarms, the trials that we have undergone through virtually all the years of independence,
they probably did not pass a single person in our country by. We remember well that in 1991 none of us expected that our country would end up in such a difficult situation, and that our citizens would become poor overnight, that is, they became dependent and oppressed people. In those days, I worked as a manager. I was in the same situation as you.
All the time, I thought about what I needed to do to pay wages to staff at the companies where I worked, what I needed to do to reassure people, since unexpected things were happening not once a year, but every day. Unfortunately, it was getting worse and worse. I understand well enough that when you asked me questions during our meetings on the squares -

[Melnychuk, interrupting] Viktor Fedorovych.

[Yanukovych, continuing] - and at factories, I did not always
have the answers because I kept working and looking for those answers while working, how to solve the problem. Really, I looked for the answer and found it. And in these two years that I have been working [as prime minister], that anniversary comes on 21 November, my team and I have done something for the state and for society and for the people. Maybe you have felt this. But I would like to talk about something else. I want to talk about the old government that was working all these years of independence, to talk about the people who made us poor, to talk about the people who are now fighting to regain power, to talk about bankrupt government officials, bankrupt politicians whom we no longer trust. I will talk about all this today. I will say it in the way I believe an honest citizen should say it, looking you in the eye with respect for the people, but in a principled and honest way. Our future is in our hands. But our future depends on how we look at our past. Therefore, dear friends, dear voters, let's listen carefully where the
truth lies. And when they talk about me - the dirt that has been poured on me all throughout this election campaign - I would like my opponents to look at themselves first, who they are and what role they are playing in our country today. Are these representatives of the old
authorities who are again trying -

[Melnychuk, interrupting] Viktor Fedorovych.

[Yanukovych, continuing] - to return -

[Presenter, interrupting] Viktor Fedorovych, I repeat, your time is up.

[Yanukovych, continuing] - to power. Are these people we are meeting for the first time? Thank you for your attention. Let's speak the truth.

[Melnychuk] Excuse me. I will switch off both clocks. I will take the time from the four minutes that are allotted to me. Viktor Andriyovych, if you look at your opponent's clock, you'll see that he spoke for six minutes instead of three. This is what you said before the programme: if someone overstretches his introductory statement, it is your right, and I set your clock for six minutes. Go ahead.

Need for change

[Yushchenko] Dear compatriots, dear voters, dear Ukrainian people! First of all, I would like to say thanks to everyone without exception for 31 October, for being unique citizens of this country on 31 October. For the fact that 75 per cent of voters came to polling stations,
for proving that you are not billy goats [refers to a phrase Yanukovych once used about his opponents], you are not cattle but citizens who have the right to vote. And in most cases you defended your position, you right to vote. As time is short, I would like to address you personally, without censorship, theme lists or liars, which by the way also applies to my election programme. What do I want to achieve, what do goals I set for myself and my government? I am convinced about one thing. The Ukrainian people are tired of living in poverty, dependence and with no rights. Because we have the lowest pensions in the former Soviet Union, the lowest wages not only in the former Soviet Union but also in Europe. I am convinced that our people are not proud of our health care, education, unemployment and so on. I am convinced that any
honest politician would say so, regardless of whether he represents the authorities or the so-called outcasts, Ukraine's opposition.

Change, this is what the Ukrainians think about. This is what they think about, this is what they talk
about and this is what they expect from their future leader. The Ukrainian people do not simply want change, they want this change to be wide-ranging. They want this change to concern the economy, politics and leaders of the nation. I
think there are two components of the change I want to talk about, which are the pillars of my election programme.

First, changes in the economy. The goal of these changes is to move away from the policy of crises presented by our government, either the grain crisis or bread or food or petrol. Now we are on the brink of a currency or budget crisis. It does not matter. From the policy of crises we need to move to the economy of stable growth. This is our No 1 task: to create new jobs on the basis of a stable economy, decent wages and, certainly, to keep prices stable.

This is what I, my government, did in 2000-01. This is what we will do now. This is one of the central points of my election programme. Political changes are the second part of the things I would like to talk about. I will not talk about the so-called political reform that the authorities have been carrying out for the last two years, whose goal is not to democratize society but to retain power. I will talk about another component of political changes. Here I would like to talk of corruption. Corruption, friends, is not something that is located far away or concerns some government officials far from us, or something that visits us once a year in our or someone else's home. I am convinced that corruption to Ukrainians is what destroys our society, our morality and our way of life. Corruption is widespread and people want to see a candidate who proposes a future without corruption and who is honest.

These are the two pillars of my election campaign. I repeat. First, jobs, wages and stable prices. Second, fighting corruption throughout the country. This, people, is the goal. The mechanisms for achieving it are transparency, trust and the law of Ukraine. This is where conflict arises between transparent politics and politicking. This is not a conflict between two Victors. This is a conflict of two world views, two moralities. Our choice is very simple. Either we live according to the code of ethics of the criminal underworld or we live like free and affluent people. Thank you.


[Presenter] Thank you. So, esteemed participants, presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko has the right to speak on the first theme - and the theme is social policy. As you see, it is set by the Central Electoral Commission. One moment, and I'll return to my place. Now, Viktor Andriyovych, you have up to 10 minutes to discuss this topic.

Social policy

[Yushchenko] Dear friends! One of the fundamental problems of my nation and the current government is its inability to manage the state coffers honestly and fairly. On the one hand, five years ago people who worked at the
presidential administration were driving to work in a Zhiguli 2105 [Soviet-era Lada car]. A used one, by the way. Today, they are on the list of the top 100 rich men in Europe or at least top 100 rich men in Ukraine. This is one side of
the Ukrainian truth. On the other side, the pensions and wages of Ukrainian citizens are 33 per cent lower than in Belarus and 60 per cent lower than in Russia. Armenians and Kazakhs have higher pensions and wages than Ukrainians. If we mention Lithuania, Estonia, Lithuanians, their pensions and wages are four times what the Ukrainians are getting today. I will not talk about Poland where wages and pensions are six and a half times higher. I ask that those happy with these statistics, who are proud of this government policy, to raise their hands. I am convinced that an honest government employee will not raise a hand. Everyone knows that pensions and wages in Ukraine are lower even that the subsistence level. Often it is less than half of the subsistence level.

My goal now is to cover three key areas of social policy. First, the wage policy. Second, the pension policy. Third, separate social programmes. Let us begin with the wages. During my opponent's time in office, the average wage that they report grew by 42 per cent. The minimum wage grew 44 per cent. Taking into account that the minimum wage is 55 per cent of the subsistence level, as a rule, it is spent entirely on food, people's basic needs. I want to ask everyone to analyse one thing. Let us analyse how the lives of Ukrainians have changed over the last two years, based on only two things: food and wages. It does not matter whether it is the minimum or average wage. Please, look at the statistics. If you were going to buy meat two years ago, in November 2002, before the arrival of Mr. Yanukovych on the throne, your average wage would buy 36 kilos of pork. Now all you could buy is 22 kilos. If you were going to buy veal in December 2002, you could buy 44 kilos, but now you can buy only 25 kilos. Not to mention lard. Now you can buy 35 kilos on your entire [monthly] wage. Two years ago, before this government, you could buy 63 kilos of this product. Today you can buy 45 kilos of sausage, two years ago you could buy 63 kilos with your wage. Such product as eggs, today you can buy 140 eggs, two years ago you could buy 177 eggs. Milk, today you can buy 350 litres with one average monthly wage, two years ago you could buy 443 litres. It is the same figures for sunflower oil. As for petrol, now your average wage can buy 206 litres of A-95 type, two years ago you could buy 260 litres. If we look at diesel fuel, this is especially important for small and medium businesses, please, two years ago you could buy 354 kilos
[as received] of diesel fuel. Today you can buy 225. I have question to Mr Yanukovych and his team. How has the average wage become better for the average Ukrainian? Where is the GDP you can put on your sandwich and say that everyone has felt it? I think the main shortcoming here is that the authorities failed to grasp a simple economic concept. To make the people rich, you must get two things right. First, ensure that economic growth exceeds the rate of growth of wages and pensions. That is the first component. Second, maintain price stability. Then we will see affluent citizens. The current government and my opponent have not managed this.

Pensions

Let's return to the second important topic, pension policy and pension provision. Literally a few weeks before the election, the government issued resolution No 1215 of 18 September 2004 on raising the level of pension provision. Actually, this is not about a pension increase, but a targeted one-off state benefit, which can be reduced or cancelled with a stroke of a pen.

Here's what's interesting about the pension policy of the current government. The funds for paying increased pensions are not included in the draft budget for 2005 submitted by the government and signed by my opponent. Not a kopeck is included. It is recommended that the Pension Fund should go to the market and take out a loan.

I would call on each pensioner to go today to the district department of the Pension Fund and ask for a recalculation of your pension. Any official will give you a definite answer: refusal. Because pensions have not been raised. It was really a supplement.

I am genuinely happy that pensioners received increased payments on their accounts twice ahead of the election. But the majority of voters understand that this is cheese, that this is a pre-election trick. But I guarantee that we will increase pensions by law, really increase them, so that they are received regularly - regardless of the whim of the government or officials.

Just in the theft by
privatization [Ukr: prykhvativastiya] of Kryvorizhstal steelworks at half the true price, the oligarchs stole from every pensioner an amount that is at least twice the present supplement. I would like to place a full stop here. I think
that in our discussion we will return to this topic.

Here is what I have to say about individual social programmes. In 2004, the total amount allocated for preventive medicine was 10m hryvnyas, while the amount for the hospital for senior officials in Feofaniya was 99m hryvnyas. 74m hryvnyas was allocated for treating tuberculosis, because the rate of infection is five times greater here than in our neighbours, and for repair of the presidential administration building - 80m. That is about priorities. Ukraine is today in experiencing an epidemic of tuberculosis and AIDS. That is an official warning from the World Health Organization.

Personally, I feel ashamed of this economic stability and I shall do everything to make sure that medical care is affordable. With the birth of a child, a mother gets 725 hryvnyas from the state. Everyone knows that minimum spending on a baby is 1,700 hryvnyas. I am the father of small children. This is taking into account the baby's bed, a pram, nappies which got more expensive after becoming subject to tax, baby food and so on.

What did my government achieve in 2000 in this area? In 2000, we funded social items 90 per cent more than in 1999. My government fully cleared all the arrears in pensions and allowances for people with disabilities for the previous four years, 1996-99. We spent 1.9bn hryvnyas on this. We cleared all wage arrears for doctors, teachers and public sector employees in general, 1.86bn, you remember that. Pensioners and public sector employees began receiving their salaries and pensions on time. Wages and pensions grew by 50 per cent under my government. We created 470,000 jobs in one year, we are talking about the year 2000. In 2001, we created 700,000 jobs. That is where the programme came from to create 5m jobs in five years. The agriculture began to rise from its knees.

[Melnychuk] Time is up, let me remind you.

[Yushchenko] Thank you. Because it got 2bn in loans with reduced interest rate from the state. What shall I do? We shall set a new subsistence level of 432 [hryvnyas], the Supreme Council already approved it a few weeks ago. Minimum pension will rise to the subsistence level by law.

Savings devalued in the Savings Bank will be refunded. Young people will receive affordable housing loans. Mandatory army service will be cut down to 12 months, and those with higher education will serve for nine months. Medical assistance will be free, and we will provide Ukrainian citizens with standards of health care guaranteed by the state. Education, science and culture - these and not penal bodies - will be my government's funding priorities. The budget will serve the people to the last kopeck. We will create five million new jobs. A moratorium will be imposed on buying and selling land until 2008, so that farmers will not be deceived, so they will remain owners of Ukrainian land.

Yanukovych government's achievements

[Melnychuk] Thank you. You used two minutes more, and I would like to emphasize that at this pace we will not be able to discuss all the four sections, to say nothing of other matters.

Esteemed candidate, the floor is yours.

[Yanukovych] Thank you. Dear viewers, you know that social policy is my government's priority. And the latest decision we made was a programme that would be implemented by 2015. Everything we've been doing lately in social policy amounts to two parts. The first was repaying the debts to our citizens amassed in the years of independence by previous governments, our predecessors. The second part was current issues, planned since 2003. What did my government and I start with? We started with an empty treasury. I wish it had only been that, an empty treasury, without debts. But the debts were huge. I will name just a few. The wage debt, for example, was more than 2bn - about 2,300m [hryvnyas]. Arrears in welfare payments amounted to about 4bn [hryvnyas], including those to Chernobyl [veterans], to large families, and so on. There was no other way but to pay debts before starting to work for the future or for one's own reputation, as they say.
It is always difficult to repay debts, but it is necessary. Therefore, while repaying debts we always faced the task to pay 100 per cent of current wages and keep increasing them. Last year, in 2003, we managed to clear 30-32 per cent of arrears and to increase the average wage by 23 per cent - by 32 per cent in the public sector. We managed to do this thanks to economic growth. I will talk about this later.

Why was all this debt accumulated? Because the monetary policy of previous governments - and the overall policy pursued before us - kept wages from growing fast. Why? Because it suited them to keep the nation poor. Because it is easier to govern the poor.

And if we are to return once again to the time when esteemed Mr Yushchenko worked in
government as head of the National Bank, we remember well how inflation reached 10,000 per cent in those years. And we remember how our wealth was stolen from us overnight during currency reform, as was the wealth of the state. Therefore,
I believe the time will come when it will be necessary to answer for that.

Furthermore, if we look at the overall situation concerning the debts that have mounted over the years. Why have they not been repaid? Why is the policy we are carrying out now described by our opponents as populism? Whatever it's called, whatever words we use, we need to repay our debt to our people.

And our main goal, I have said this many times, at government meetings and during meetings on the squares in this election campaign, I said that I want you to believe us. I will do everything to restore people's trust in the authorities.

My team and I arrived just two years ago. It is up to you to decide where we succeeded and where we did not succeed. I agree with the criticism that we are hearing. I agree that we have still not succeeded in
turning things round everywhere and finding the problems that have piled up in great numbers over the years. But let's take this year. This year, as well as last year, we have increased the budget by 100 per cent, and - [corrects himself] excuse me, I mean we fulfilled the budget [100 per cent]. And having exceeded targets on budget revenues alone we have managed to significantly improve our social indicators.

I would like to answer several questions that you, dear voters, have asked me and that I just heard from Mr Yushchenko. For example, aid to families with children - the one-off payment for the birth of a child, which is what Mr Yushchenko talked about. In 2001, it was 74 hryvnyas. Now in 2004 it is 725 hryvnyas. Next year, it will be doubled, and this is foreseen in the budget. It will be 1,500 hryvnyas. And if we are talking about the social policy that the Yushchenko government carried out in 2000, I would like to say that privileges were cancelled - almost two thirds of all privileges - including those for the birth of a child, and that was 6 hryvnyas a
month, as well as privileges for military personnel and all those in a similar category, such as police and law-enforcement agencies. By the way, an article of the constitution was violated. We are returning these privileges and we shall return them, we have already started doing it, and over the year 2005 we shall return them.

As for the average monthly pension, pensions in Ukraine today are higher than in any other Soviet countries.

[Melnychuk] Esteemed candidate, you have one minute left.

[Yanukovych] My friends, I would like for you to know that if my opponents are saying, we shall take a step backwards, maybe thay are getting ready, just in case, not to carry out our
decision or to cancel it. First, I want to say that they will not be able to do it. Second, we shall carry out every single decision that we make, and we shall never take a single step backwards. Starting next year, we shall start differentiating pensions and we shall do it consistently, the way we decided. The pension reform will only improve the funding of our esteemed pensioners. Thank you.

[Melnychuk] Thank you, I am stopping the clock. We are now moving on to the next block of issues called economic policy. Initially we wanted the first half to be for candidates publicizing their promises, so to speak, and in the second half to reveal the mechanisms, but you are supporting your points so well in the first block, that please, Viktor Yanukovych will start the second block. Are you ready, Viktor Fedorovych? I am starting the clock.

Economic policy

[Yanukovych] Good. Esteemed TV viewers, esteemed voters. I report to you that when my government and I started working, Ukraine's economy was in a very difficult situation. Most enterprises in our country were loss-making, unfortunately. I said earlier that the state coffers were empty. The National Bank's gold and currency reserves amounted to 4.5bn dollars. By the way, under Mr Yushchenko's government, they amounted to about
2.5bn hryvnyas. Therefore, the main task that we set for ourselves was, indeed, developing the state's economy and, based on this, raising the standard of living of our citizens. All of you were witnesses of how we managed to do this. Not only did you witness that - all able-bodied citizens of our state worked and created this economy, for which I am very grateful. More than 22m citizens of our state worked to achieve this result.

What were the economic results in 2003? GDP grew by 9.6 per cent compared to 2002. This year, GDP grew by 13.4 per cent in nine months. These are quantitative indicators.

As regards qualitative indicators, you know that our state's economy is export-oriented.
Therefore, our state's policy consisted of two parts - the internal, domestic policy and the foreign one.

We started to cooperate with associations of manufacturers on domestic policy. This cooperation allowed us to find common ground on economic issues. We agreed, and together with parliament, with its constructive part, with which the government cooperated, we adopted a programme of economic development in 2003.

And in 2004, we reported about it to
parliament, and its positive results were approved. Therefore, it was our joint actions which enabled us to adopt the needed draft laws. In order to make our enterprises more profitable, we reduced the income tax to 15 per cent. In order
to raise our citizen's salaries, we started calculating wage increases from the cost value of manufactured products, starting from big industrial enterprises, I mean, in our country, and down to agricultural enterprises. Because when we
started working on this issue, wages accounted to about 6 per cent of the cost value at, for example, agricultural companies.

It is much higher now. I would like to say that over that time we have managed substantially to reduce
the number of loss-making companies, which make up just over 28 per cent of Ukrainian companies. When we just started working, only 48 per cent of Ukrainian companies were turning a profit. There was a lot of barter operations, which prop up the shadow sector of the economy, into which the previous governments had driven businesses. That was also the fault of the National Bank, which esteemed Mr Yushchenko chaired.

[Yushchenko, interrupting] The National Bank doesn't have anything to do with barter, it only handles money.

[Yanukovych] There's no escaping it, the National Bank controlled the flow of money, and when money is being driven away into the shadow economy, it is the duty of the National Bank to stop it. And I would like to ask you not to interrupt me. You will have time, you will say you word, today and in the future, you will have a chance to say the truth to our citizens. So by raising the economy and wages, we have done the job which we hoped to do. And another important issue, driving the economy out of shadow. We have managed over this time substantially to cut [the shadow sector], but this work is still ongoing, and it will continue. We haven't yet gone down to dealing with the businessmen who, while hiding behind various slogans, including political slogans, are searching for an opportunity to continue living in the shadow sector and make money.

Dear TV viewers, dear voters. I would like to say towards the end of this question that I believe that we and you together are capable of doing much more than we have already done. And this is our duty, to our senior generation, and the teachers who taught us, and to our children, who now take after us. And the new government that has been working, and the new authorities will do everything possible to improve the economy, and to improve the living standards of our citizens. This will be so. Thank you.

Yushchenko attacks government's economic record

[Melnychuk] I thank you, too. Mr Yushchenko, your turn please.



[Yushchenko] Dear TV viewers, I have just listened to a speech that is probably more about politics than about the economy. But I would like to say to my esteemed opponent, you didn't have a wolf at your door when your government came to power. Had you taken over the Ukrainian government in 2000, you wouldn't be saying now that you had to start from zero. In 2002 [when Yanukovych became prime minister], economic growth, which was being reflected in budget revenue figures, was 8.2 per cent. In 1999 [when Yushchenko came to power], all we had was a 4 per cent fall in GDP, 4bn [dollars] in debt, a country facing default on its debt, and 257 corrupt government decrees. That was all I inherited from the previous government. So don't anger God, you were lucky. And don't anger God by saying you haven't been long enough in government. Two years is an infinity for a prime minister in Ukraine.

Another thing I would like to say to you, as you are a professor: inflation starting from 1993 and up until 2000 had only one cause, and I think you know it very well. That cause is budget deficit. That was the only reason that undermined stability of the Ukrainian currency. And please leave the National Bank alone. I think time will come when you'll appreciate what the National Bank did, including what it did for the [Donetsk] region you were once the governor of.

Dear friends! Leaving emotions aside, I would like to say just one thing: we have an unprofessional government. I hear today from my opponent declarations of a Ukrainian economic miracle. We have 13.4 per cent of GDP growth. We have already overtaken Singapore! But do you know how much extra budget revenue we have got from this miracle? It is 1.8 per cent. The very simple economic question is, Mr Yanukovych, where is the rest? Where did it all go? Who gains from it? You said you were going to be a president of rich people. But two thirds of my nation are poor people, who are below the poverty line. So where is this difference between 13.4 per cent and 1.8 per cent being channelled? Why is it that in Poland, 47 per cent of the GDP goes into the national budget? Why is the figure so low in this country?

Shadow sector

This, Mr Yanukovych, is where we have to talk about shadow economy. And in this country, the shadow sector makes up 55 per cent of the economy. My question to you is, how does the shadow sector come about? My own answer to that, my version, not yours, is that the shadow economy is always created by
the government, starting from the presidential administration, the Cabinet of Ministers, the state tax service -

[Yanukovych, sighing, interrupts] But you worked in government for 11 years
-
[Yushchenko] Mr Yanukovych -

[Yanukovych] Yes or no?

[Yushchenko] and police and the SBU [the security service] -

[Yanukovych] I say so as well.

[Yushchenko] Now, friends, let us say that the government is sustaining the shadow sector, that is props it up and serves as a cover for it. What sort of pathological decisions is the current government making, and where
are they leading us? And since my opponent has quoted statistics, I will do so too. Why is it now that while the GDP is growing at a rate of 13.4 per cent, this government is the first since 2000 to start borrowing on the foreign markets? As much as 5bn has already been borrowed in this way. Mr Yanukovych, do you realize that you are putting your hand in our children's wallet? You have this great GDP growth, so why don't you collect budget revenue and pay for social spending, wages and pensions? Furthermore, Mr Yanukovych, you have not paid 7.5bn to honest businessmen in VAT refunds. That's during your tenure. Another 3bn in VAT refunds has been delayed for three or four years. So you have in effect illegally borrowed another 10bn. What is the government doing to the economy, my friends? Can this policy continue for another year or two?

Another thing. Mr Yanukovych, are you aware that the government had forced honest businessmen to pay 3 bn in taxes in advance? Take these four figures into account, and it becomes clear that over the past 10 months, out of
the 46bn of government spending, 9bn is deficit. That's 9bn! Friends, one hryvnya in five has been plucked out of thin air! What sort of an economy is it, what sort of surrealism? Add to that the fact that you have already spent 14bn in revenue that should be spent in 2005 and 2006. And yet you keep talking about the government's achievements.

I think, Mr Yanukovych, that either they misinform you, or you deliberately quote figures that do not correspond to reality. But let us leave boring figures now. Let us think about what kind of evil can come about as a result of such policy. What kind of problems can ordinary people expect as a result of such policies? I would like to say that in 2004, wholesale prices in Ukraine have gone up by 17 per cent. And of course wholesale prices will eventually be reflected in retail prices. If
you look at inflation figures in October, you'll see that it has already reached 2.2 per cent, in just one month! In Europe that would be an annual inflation figure. Over here we have that just in the month of October, meaning that the annualised figure is 30 per cent. That is 30 per cent of inflation, if we annualise the October figure!

Mr Yanukovych, you have been speaking about the National Bank reserves. That is not a question to the Cabinet of Ministers, but I will comment nonetheless. During your election campaign, the National Bank's hard currency reserves fell by 3bn [dollars] over the past 40-50 days. That is 17bn hryvnyas. Over the past month Ukrainians bought 600m dollars more
in hard currency than they sold. That's just October! I can say that as a professional banker, I have not seen such lack of trust in the hryvnya over the past six years.

Almost a third of the country's hard currency reserves has been sold at discount price [to prop up the hryvnya]. I cannot describe this as a well-though and professional policy by the government or the National Bank. So for the first time in the past five or six years, the National Bank has had to raise the interest rates, twice. And what does that mean? That means more expensive credit for the economy as a whole and for individual consumers. That means that credit becomes less available, and most importantly, that leads to the gradual slowdown of Ukraine's economic growth.

Virtually all government offices are now closed. You will not find anyone there because [switches to Russian] all the ministers are fighting an election [paraphrasing the Soviet wartime notice: everyone is fighting on the frontline.] [Switches to Ukrainian] The head of the National Bank [Serhiy Tyhypko] has been on leave since July, not at work, working as my opponent's campaign manager. This, friends, is the economic environment which cannot be attributed to an effective and productive policy. Therefore, we are proposing a new strategy for Ukraine. We have detailed the first 100 days of the president in office and his decree packages. They are aimed at one thing: to stabilize the economy and to organize a new social policy and political reforms. Thank you.

[Melnychuk] I thank you. And now we turn to the third package of issues described as Ukraine's domestic policy. Please get ready, and the first to speak is Viktor Andriyovych Yushchenko.

[Yushchenko] Maybe I should let Viktor Fedorovych [Yanukovych] speak?

[Melnychuk] I apologize, the rules - I am the moderator here.

[Yushchenko] My fault.

[Melnychuk] Viktor Andriyovych.

Domestic policy, corruption

[Yushchenko] Domestic policy, the state of domestic policy. The present government, it is known, is corrupt and controlled by the oligarchs. That's what 90 per cent of the nation says according to independent opinion polls, and that is also my position. On the list of the world's top corrupt countries Ukraine rates next to Guatemala and Sudan. I marvel at those whose heart does not sink at these statistics. The state is indifferent to its own citizens. This government's domestic policy, I want to stress, is destructive and dangerous to my society. This government is acting against peace and stability in Ukraine. The main principle of its work is divide and rule. Therefore, it has been successfully dividing Ukrainians into easterners and
westerners, according to language and religion. This is an artificial division and I categorically dismiss it. It pains me to hear a Ukrainian described as an easterner or a westerner. I always think of the Russian president who addresses
his citizens not as [in Russian] eastern Russians and western Russians. [Back in Ukrainian] He uses one simple word - Russians - regardless whether he talks about Mordovians, Yakuts, Chechens or any other ethnic minority. I recall [Polish] President [Aleksander] Kwasnewski say one thing, from morning till night, [in Polish] Poles are united.

[Back in Ukrainian] Why is the government making us differ? It makes us differ with one purpose in mind: if you don't succeed in dividing Ukrainians, if you do not carefully study the map publicized by my opponent - [changes tack] This government takes Ukrainians and plays with them, from Donbass to western Ukraine, so that this haze, this nonsense, clouds the view of my community. But evil deeds will always recoil against the evil doers.

Ukraine's divisions, election fraud

I want to say firmly. The Ukrainian nation, the united nation, cannot be divided by language or history or integration or religion. I want to add that regardless of what language we speak, what church we go to and what bank of the Dnieper, left or right, we live on, the truth is on both sides of the Dnieper. On 31 October, the Ukrainian people proved that Ukraine is a united state, united nation, and candidates representing democratic forces are supported both in the east and
west. I want to note the things we lose when we are divided. When we are divided, the authorities can steal Kryvorizhstal in one night, and we'll have to listen for 12 months the fairy-tales of this government. We cannot strike Article 57 from the agenda, it is a social article concerning teachers, because we are 2.5bn short to
fund it. We are being told that the minimum wage of 237 hryvnyas could not be introduced from the beginning of the year, because we are 2bn short. On the same day, or half a day, Kryvorizhstal is stolen by Mr Yanukovych's partner and Kuchma's son-in-law. The difference between the highest bid from buyers and the lowest bid is 5bn. So I want to ask, what are we short of to make sure that teachers and doctors have decent salaries? Is it money or something else? When we are divided, the authorities can brutally deny the sacred right to vote to millions of people. Three million people came [to polling stations] on 31 October and could not vote, because they were on the list of dead people or had wrong surnamed, names or patronymics? Whose job is it? Who is responsible for the election? Who is responsible for preparing the voters' lists? Why couldn't millions of Ukrainians vote? The current government is responsible, beginning with a local administration and ending with the prime minister.

When we are divided, the authorities can rig the election, steal votes from supporters of Viktor Yushchenko, Petro Symonenko, Oleksandr Moroz or Anatoliy Kinakh, or Oleksandr Omelchenko, it does not matter.
They steal from everyone, because they want to give advantage to their candidate. I have a whole pile of election reports, Viktor Fedorovych, where the second page -

[Melnychuk] Mr Yushchenko, I am sorry, but the CEC prohibits the use of materials other than those on your computer.

[Yushchenko] I wanted Mr Yanukovych to see.


[Melnychuk] We have a representative of the CEC who is watching this.

[Yushchenko] We have hundreds of reports which have been signed and sealed but where all the lines are empty. Who is responsible for this? Which commissions and who controls them? What falsification has been done electronically, when my nation was being misinformed about the winner of the election for six days. Who needs this manipulation? It is possible only when we
are divided, dear friends.

In this election, the authorities did not stand against the opposition. The authorities stood against the people. Nonetheless, I defeated the candidate backed by the authorities in the first round. The main thing is that it is not my victory. It is the victory of the Ukrainian democracy, and the Ukrainian people. I am convinced that after 21 November we shall change this country. I believe in it with every fibre of my body. It will be so. We have created a strategy for Ukraine. I have already approved a package of presidential decrees which I will sign right after my
victory. The first one, is a determined fight against corruption at all levels. State officials
will declare not only their personal incomes, but also their spending, not hiding behind the backs of their family members. I will ban state officials from accepting presents.

I will ban officials from buying expensive cars, having luxury flat renovations and constructing government buildings. All this money will go on social programmes for people. The priorities of the law enforcement bodies will change. Police will protect the life and peace of ordinary Ukrainians and not serve the oligarchs. The courts will be purged of judges who are implicated in corruption or give verdicts to order. The authorities will take care of the unity of the Ukrainian people. And the most important thing, I will issue a decree requiring the work of all local officials to be assessed according to clear criteria that people can understand. How many new jobs are created in the region -

[Melnychuk, interrupts] Viktor Andriyovych.

[Yushchenko, continues] - the level of wages and
pensions, how plants and agriculture work, the birth rate and life expectancy. Right after the election, a government of people's trust will be established, which will include members not just of my political team, but representatives of
other political forces - the Socialists, Communists, Agrarians, Industrialists and Entrepreneurs, Liberals and People's Democrats. Thank you.

Yanukovych on domestic policy

[Melnychuk] Thank you. Viktor Fedorovych, it's your
turn.

[Yanukovych] Thank you. Dear viewers, dear voters. We understand clearly that domestic policy needs to be changed. And for this we need to change the quality of the government. That is, we need to renew the government. This is
a necessary condition that we will carry out, and we will do this gradually. We have to ensure that the authorities work more effectively for society, so that the authorities will never again work so badly for the state, and so humiliatingly for society, as it has worked up until now.

And when I hear my opponent, I keep asking him - but I have not heard an answer - Who worked with these authorities in all the years of independence? Mr Yushchenko, you worked with them in the National Bank and you worked in government. If you look at the policy of distrust that created people's distrust in these authorities, this is something that you created.

All the time, when I worked in my region, all the time, I was surprised. When will they get it, when will this end, when will they think about the state and about the Ukrainian people? I am sure that you bankrupt government members who have gathered together to return to power - that the people won't let you do this. I am sure of it. Because the people will never return to those humiliating times in which we lived during virtually all the years of independence.

And when you say that you are in opposition that is laughable. Because the opposition is the Communists, the opposition is [Progressive Socialist Party leader Nataliya] Vitrenko and so on.

Yanukovych attacks Yushchenko's record in government

You had the opportunity to use to show what you could do, including in domestic policy. Now what you are saying - that you will do this, I have signed these decrees - your time has passed, and it will never return. And that is the most important thing.

As for borrowing, and that is also our policy, I will give you examples. When you headed the government, esteemed Mr Yushchenko, you took loans at 18 per cent interest. Second, Mr [former Prime Minister Anatoliy] Kinakh's last loan in November 2002 was at 11.8 per cent. My government took out our last loan at 5.3 per cent over seven years.

And it was not us who increased foreign debt, it was you who increased foreign debt in all the years of independence. For the last two years when you have now set yourself the goal of fooling society, all the time you talk about this. And at the same time you talk about God. I want to tell you that you are bankrupt government members, bankrupt authorities and not opposition.

And you call God's name, too! So I would like to tell you this. You are bankrupt government officials, a bankrupt government, and not opposition. Second, it was your policy that made Ukraine poor and, in some instances, dependent. And I will quote examples if you have forgotten. I will remind you how you went about privatizing - since you keep mentioning the word - regional energy distribution companies [oblenergos] and whose hands oblenergos went to, whom you gave the master switch and what
happened later, how you went to London and found buyers there and sold the oblenergos to foreign buyers making the whole of Ukraine dependent.

Therefore, esteemed Mr Yushchenko, do not sin. Tell the truth. Enough deceiving everybody. We remember well the power cuts at hospitals, schools, industrial facilities and so on. [Moderator interrupting] We all
remember our dark spots -

[Yushchenko] Your dark spots -

[Moderator] Viktor Andriyovych -

[Yanukovych] And when you say you are patriots, I will say, on the contrary, you are not patriots. You made our country dependent when you signed a decree to close down Chernobyl - it was [Yuriy] Kostenko, your minister [of environment]. He approved shutting down the Chernobyl nuclear plant. Did we get any aid after this? It was only thanks to our domestic Ukrainian investment, our investors, that we have now succeeded in building two new reactors, at the Rivne and the Khmelnytskyy nuclear stations, and turn Ukraine from an energy-dependent, energy-depleted nation to a nation that today is capable of exporting electric power to Europe. And we shall do so by pooling efforts with the partners whom we see as beneficial to us. And these are, above all, Russia. These issues were resolved when we brought together the power grids of Ukraine and Russia.

And when you talk about VAT, you should be ashamed of yourself. You introduced this tax. You amassed the debts that my government inherited and kept trying to repay. And we have repaid them now, and all business people and industrialists who have encountered this tax know this was the most criminal tax, with kickbacks constantly reaching 30-50 per cent. And it was you who did it. And now we have cleared the debt of 8m [hryvnyas] and have achieved 100 per cent of VAT clearance. My government has done it. So let us tell the truth because there is no escaping the
truth.

Esteemed Mr Kinakh, who is playing along with you now, he also, this is our domestic policy, when you talked about crises, the petrol crisis for instance. So who sold off the oil refineries? Under your government, all the oil
refineries were sold off and, we managed to stop the Kremenchuh oil refinery from being sold. Ukraine became dependent on this issue. Only now we started creating a vertically integrated [energy] company. I am not ruling out that we may have to build a new oil refinery to regulate the domestic market in some way. I would like to tell all the esteemed viewers, that we must learn to see the difference between lies and the truth. When we need to make some conclusions, we must always be open, meaning truthful and honest. Thank you.

[Melnychuk] Thank you too, and I would like to discuss something
with you, I am stopping the clock before I announce the fourth section. As you can see, both timers have about the same time, maybe a few seconds difference. In order for you to have five minutes each for closing statements, we need to cut the fourth block. The fourth block will be not 10 minutes, I want to ask you to keep it under nine minutes. I will stop you a little earlier and signal you a little earlier. We now have the fourth block, candidate Viktor Yanukovych is getting ready, foreign policy. Please, Viktor Fedorovych.

Foreign affairs

[Yanukovych] Thank you. Speaking of our foreign policy, I would like to first of all say that it must not damage the Ukrainian economy but benefit it. It must benefit the life of our country in general. I want to divide it according to burning issues that we have right now, the relations with Russia, the European Union, and the development of the future security system. We must also understand very clearly that Ukraine is an export-oriented country, and we must develop ties with such powerful partners as the USA, China and other countries which are our reliable partners today. We need to have transparent, clear policy towards them. As
for Russia, you know that we have been doing lot lately to improve these ties and build a strong economy on this basis. The creation of the Single Economic Space is a step into the future, a step towards us having an opportunity to maintain the level of the economy that we have, not decrease but only grow the level of the economy. This includes the development
of ties with Belarus and Kazakhstan, everything that the Single Economic Space envisages today. These issues involve human issues, so to speak. This concerns the border crossing procedure, for instance. We are going to look into this issue and we shall do everything to liberalize our policy, unite our crossing points and create favourable conditions for the citizens of our countries.

Now about the issue of dual nationality. But let us not think that this issue is just about Russia - this is about other citizens as well. And this issue can be sold by granting our citizens the right to hold dual nationality. It will then be up to the citizens. And what will this law look like? It depends on what we sign with this or another country, if we reach an agreement, and it depends on the exact terms. So when I hear my opponents scaring people by saying that as soon as you adopt dual nationality, they will draft you and send to serve in Chechnya, my answer is as follows. I often hear this question, and my answer is, doesn't it also mean that a
citizen of Canada who wants to adopt Ukrainian citizenship will also be drafted and send to Chechnya? That is really ridiculous. It is a very democratic approach, and it exists in many democratic countries. Whether or not we adopt this decision will be up to you to decide, the citizens of Ukraine. And whatever we decide in our country, so it will be.

Such questions are answered by referendum, the questions of dual nationality or granting the Russian language the status of [Ukraine's second] official language. So it is with all the other questions which we maybe didn't mention today. As to building the Single Economic Space, it is our prospect and we are working on it. As to our relations with the EU, you know that the living standards have been improving in Ukraine in recent years. And when we raise the living standards to the European level, then we will have European conditions in our country. This is the main question that we and you should work on.

Over the past years, they have been luring us with this carrot, yet they were saying one thing but using double standards against Ukraine. There has been a lot of such examples. One of them is granting our country the market economy status, which we have been promised over the past two years. I remember that. They didn't give it to us. And the answer, we didn't get a clear answer. So the model we are now proposing with the EU, is agreements covering two or three years, and then drawing the conclusions. In this way we will move. And [European] integration is first of all improving the living standards. This is the main condition that will, as they say, affect every citizen of our country.

And the building of a European security system. When we talk about it, I say that the main thing we must do is to build and reform our armed forces and make our army combat ready. This is our duty, and we must make use of our military-industrial complex, which, by the way, was being destroyed all the time. Over the years of independence is has been brought to the brink. We have started restoring it and for two years in a row, we have been allocating funds for special programmes. That is, we are ready, Ukraine, together with European countries, together with Russia, to discuss the issue of creating a common security system. This worries us, we must ensure that our citizens feel unsafe.

[Melnychuk] Sorry, you have misspoken, you meant safe.

[Yanukovych] Safe. That is why our real interests, we must always defend them. And when we talk about joining the WTO, this is also a question we must take very seriously. Very often people ask me this question, farmers
especially. When we join the WTO, what will happen to us? We are not competitive. I agree with you, dear friends, that we must not rush into things right now, we must not hurry. The goal of joining the WTO remains, but we must review the agreements signed by our predecessors, because the terms on which those agreements were signed, we have questions about them. We do not entirely agree with such an approach, and I would like to compare it, for example, with the signing of the agreement on closing the Chernobyl power plant. What sort of terms were they, when we get the agreement and stick by it, but our partners break all the terms. So we must always remember in our foreign policy about all our needs. And when we say, what is domestic and what is foreign policy?

Domestic policy is [long pause] companies work, people get
richer, there is less debt, and stealing [says the word in Russian then in Ukrainian] becomes ever more difficult. And foreign policy is when we stand for the interests of our country and citizens in our foreign orbit, in all directions. Thank you.

[Melnychuk] I thank you too. You have five minutes left for the final word. Mr Yushchenko, are you ready?

[Yushchenko] I am ready. But before laying our my vision of foreign policy, I would like to comment on my opponent's remarks.

[Melnychuk] That is your right, within your time limit.

Yushchenko defends own record

[Yushchenko] Mr Yanukovych, I would like to ask you to use only the information that you have and tell the truth, and not touch upon the rest. If my government submitted to parliament two deficit-free budgets, I ask you, as you are a professor, why would the government want to borrow money? It had a balanced budget! Spending and revenue were in balance! Why would a government borrow if it does not run a deficit? Second.

[Yanukovych, interrupting] I can answer that.

[Yushchenko, interrupting] Excuse me, it is my time to speak now, you will have your five minutes. [Addressing the moderator] Give me another minute to
compensate for this hollow discussion. You claim that your work in terms of VAT has been brilliant. But I can read out a memo which has just arrived at the president's office. I will not mention the reputable body that sent it, you can guess who it is. [Reads memo] It was during this government's tenure that the State Tax Administration accumulated debt in VAT refunds totalling 7.5bn hryvnyas, while income was achieved by increasing state
debt.

[Addresses Yanukovych] This is your policy. Now the tax administration has full support from the Ministry of Finance which is concealing the true state of affairs, and a budget crisis is only a matter of time. Viktor Fedorovych, you ought to be better informed about VAT.

You reproached be about regional energy distribution companies [oblenergos]. When we abolished barter trade, you in Donbass introduced barter trade between miners and energy suppliers at 90 per cent of total trade. And the debt to pensioners [in the region] was 187m [hryvnyas], this was the largest debt in the country. Starting from May 2000 [when Yushchenko was prime minister], it took a colossal struggle - you will recall our conversations and decree No 100. That was later. We prevented the plundering of Donbass. I was rebuked about my government's privatization of oblenergos. Forgive me, but as regards the seven oblenergos privatized before us - nobody knows who owns them. These were privatized on a non-competitive basis. Have you heard this term, non-competitive privatization? [Each of] the six oblenergos privatized by my government according to the law passed by the parliament of Ukraine had four bidders. While the first oblenergos were sold for - Viktor Fedorovych, pay attention - 8-11m [hryvnyas], my government sold oblenergos for 98-140m hryvnyas.

[Melnychuk] Viktor Andriyovych, I am stopping the clock because there is no other way. Are you giving up your time to let Viktor Fedorovych respond to
your question because he has used up his own time?

[Yushchenko] He has his own time.

[Melnychuk] OK, what shall we do, Viktor Fedorovych - five minutes?

[Yanukovych] I will make my closing remarks after Viktor Andriyovych.

[Melnychuk] Five minutes of closing remarks. Continue then, you have time. It is 1154 now [on the timer], please stop within five minutes.

Yushchenko on Europe, Iraq

[Yushchenko] Now as regards Ukraine's foreign policy. I am convinced that this government has no well-thought-out and, moreover, consistent foreign policy. Figuratively speaking, I would say this: in summer, government officials rush to Brussels and swear loyalty to the EU and European values.

Then shortly before the heating season starts, the same crowd rushes to Moscow where they say they want nothing to do with Europe, complain that we are not wanted there, and swear loyalty to the Single Economic Space or other agreements. This is Byzantine politics, either-or politics, which brought ruin to every country that espoused it. And the ruin is simply this: we are losing friends both in the East and in the West. While six-seven years ago Ukraine sent 38 per cent of its exports to Russia, thanks to the policy pursued by this government the volume of exports to Russia is about 18 per cent. In other aspects - the labour market, the capital market - we have also incurred significant losses in Russia.

Investment
in Ukraine is about 60m dollars a year. Who could invest their capital given the situation here - the political situation, in the first place, and with authorities like we have in Ukraine. Nobody. Annual investment in Russia is 3.5bn, in Poland - 7bn.

The authorities tell us that Europe does not want us. I ask you, friends, would you like to have corrupt authorities for a partner? Would you like to have as your partner a country where 55 per cent of the economy is in the shadows, where there are no signs of a normal, transparent, competitive economy? Would you like to be a partner of a country where the law does not work, where your rights are worth nothing? A telephone call from the presidential administration, from Kiev, from the regional authorities, or from the Cabinet of Ministers is more important than a pile of Ukrainian laws. Would you want to have such a country as a partner? Of course not.

But, excuse me, it's not Europe that's to blame. Nobody except the current authorities wants to live according to underworld ethics. We need to
grasp that.

The next thing I want to say concerns the discussion of who we should be friends with - the East or West. Our relations with our neighbours should be of a principled strategic character, whether we are talking about the
West or the East. Foreign relations should not be built on the principle: either we are either friends with the East, or we are friends with the West. We have strategic interests in the East and in the West. We have strategic partners in
East and in the West. Therefore, in answer to the question East or West, I think it is appropriate to quote the poem "To Ukraine" by Vasyl Symonenko: "For your sake, I strew my soul with pearls. For your sake, I think and live. Let America
and Russia keep away, when I am speaking to you."

So it is not beneficial for us to lose the Russian market, but it would be a great mistake if we fail to get aboard the train that carries Ukraine to the European market, which is one of the biggest markets in the world, where there are some of the wealthiest customers in the world. It is not for nothing that 55 per cent of Russia's production is sold in the EU. Why can't Ukraine repeat even half of that rate. Then all those stories about East and West would cease right away.

Therefore, I have already issued drafts of the decrees that I will sign in my first days. This is what they foresee in the field of foreign policy. First, I will withdraw Ukrainian troops from Iraq. They have worthily carried out their mission and their duty, and no more of our lads should die there. I will make the border-crossing procedures with Russia and Belarus as simple and convenient as possible.

We are offering not populist but realistic solutions to the issue of citizenship. Viktor Fedorovych, I want to say one thing about your remark about dual citizenship and about the status of the Russian language. The prime minister does not have the right to promise, the prime minister should act. You are in a unique position in the Ukrainian official hierarchy. How many times has the government considered this issue? When have you submitted a draft law on changing the constitution concerning dual citizenship or the status of the Russian language? Never. Let's not throw promises around a week ahead of the election. Let's do our job.

I say that Ukraine's foreign policy will be transparent, understandable, responsible and consistent. The main priority is Ukraine's national interests. Thank you.

[Melnychuk] Thank you too, Mr Yushchenko, I would like to point out that you have the right to make the first closing statement, we are approaching the final stage of our debate, please get ready, I am starting the clock.

[Voice of the audience] Such luck.

[Melnychuk] Well, as they say, the lot has been drawn. A blind draw is not necessarily fair. You have five minutes.

Closing statements

[Yushchenko] Dear friends, dear Ukrainian people, dear voters! 21 November is not far away. Already today, this day is knocking on every door and posing one short and simple question. What
Ukraine do you personally choose? We have two possible answers. Either I choose the Ukraine as it is, as my opponent is saying, with rivers full of honey and milk. That we have no unemployment, have decent wages, have no 5m Ukrainians
abroad. A poor, unfortunate country deprived of its rights. A country where two third of the people have no access to medical care and education. A country with corrupt authorities. This is one choice. On the other hand, we can choose a
democratic Ukraine with free and, I want to stress, prosperous citizens. In other words, we can live according to the rules of the criminal underworld, or we can live in freedom and democracy. Sooner or later, any nation answers this
call. I am convinced that on 21 November my nation will be courageous and wise, and will have the right answer.

Ukraine is not divided into east and west by language or by church. Ukraine is not divided by politics. There are the authorities and the people who are in opposition to the authorities. There are criminals and honest people. I want it very much that honest people stay together on 21 November. I am happy to see on my side, I stress, happy to see Oleksandr Moroz and Anatoliy Kinakh. I am happy to see the inflow of powerful and friendly forces from the Ukrainian parliament. I am happy that the Klitschko brothers support me. I am happy to hear the voice of support from simple Communists. I hear it in every region. My dear citizens, I know your pain. I know what my country wants. We know what to do. I have a strategy for Ukraine, which will be presented by the government in Ukraine's parliament. I have a programme for the first 100 days in office. We need democratic Ukraine and honest authorities. I want today's debate to result in at least one thing.

Every single person who heard me today has had a chance to become stronger, this concerns especially men, whom I ask to raise their heads, stand tall and ask themselves whether we come from Cossacks. I want everyone to remember one commandment, written or not, No 11 from Moses - do not be afraid. Go to the polls. Vote, and defend your vote from the gang which calls itself the Ukrainian authorities. Everyone must understand after today's debate that Ukraine's fate is in
their hands. In your hands alone, my friend. It is not in the hands of skinheads. It is not written in prisons or other places. Remember, the election will not take place without you. Each of you is a unique participant in this election. And the last thing. In a form of a joke.

[Melnychuk] One minute.

[Yushchenko] Once on a plane, a
blind pilot and a blind navigator sat at the controls. They managed to turn the engines on, the plane was roaring and speeding down the runway. Frightened passengers look out the window and see a concrete wall, like in Boryspil on the edge of the airport. So 500 metres is left to the wall, then 400, 300, 200. And the people in the cabin start screaming. On hearing this screaming, the blind pilot pulls the stick towards him and says: "One of these days they will not scream and we'll hit that wall".

My dear voters, let us not wait till we hit that wall but change the blind navigators. Thank you.

[Moderator] Thank you, Viktor Andriyovych. Are you ready, Viktor Fedorovych? The clock is set. You have five minutes.

[Yanukovych] Dear friends, esteemed viewers. I will deliver my closing statement in Russian. [Switches to Russian] I have been in big-time politics for less than two years. Mr Yushchenko has been in big-time politics since 1993 - for 11 years. You have an opportunity to compare what I have done in two years to what Mr Yushchenko has done in 11 years and a half. You have probably seen for yourselves that my opponent's campaign has been based on lies, total falsehoods, deceit and intimidation. Ukraine has seen a lot of lies and liars in all the years of its independence. But it has never yet seen an attempt to seize power by lying. And we must be ready to see this kind of information presented to us. I have not yet sorted everything out in the two years in government. But I will sort things out and I will do my best to correct the mistakes and injustice that have been allowed in all the years of independence. I promised this and I will do it. I will answer each of the letters I received from you. Unfortunately, they are many.

I also wanted to tell you this, Mr Yushchenko. To you any government is criminal if it isn't your own. I know that the lie you have been using for the two years since your departure from government is easily debunked. Why aren't you talking about your so-called feats? Why aren't you talking about the Ostarbeiter money that disappeared from Gradobank together with your partners? Those people are already in prison. Why don't you tell us about your partners with whom you were siphoning gold and currency reserves to Cyprus, causing more than 20bn in losses -

[Yushchenko, interrupting] What are you talking about? You must have got a few zeros wrong.

[Yanukovych] Of course you wouldn't. All of this is the embodiment of the part of the authorities, and I repeat, the part of them that really is criminal. And your friend [former Deputy PM Yuliya] Tymoshenko, who is on an international wanted list. I have always respected the people I lived all my life with. The people who were beside me, my family, my wife, whom I have lived 32 years with, my friends and the people I have worked with. They are my bulwark. So they know very well that everything you said about me is simply a blatant lie. I am a believer - and you often talk about morality - I have often asked God to forgive you for your sin. And I thought, maybe that was because you were ill, and your emotions, as you said, got the better of you. I would really like that you understand me as a human. So I have got the blessing of the old men on Mount Athos, in Jerusalem, and here in Ukraine. And without their blessing I would not have run for presidency. I felt people's support. The new government has already come, Mr Yushchenko, you simply didn't notice. It has already started working, and it must be understood that it is not going anywhere, and there is no way to dislodge it. And I am absolutely confident that our future is not a walk in the park. And we know that we must work round the clock - and we did, and all the ordinary people know that only by their work can they earn their future. I believe in our common victory, and I believe that Ukraine will win.

[Melnychuk] Thank you, dear participants in the debate. Before saying goodbye, I would like to ask you if you have any complaints about the national TV company or the presenter?

[Yanukovych] I don't, personally.

[Melnychuk] And you, Mr Yushchenko?

[Yushchenko] I don't.

[Melnychuk] Because today information was published on an Internet web site that your moderator is a media assassin. I hope you do not share this view. That was published by Our Ukraine [bloc, led by Yushchenko]. In that case I sincerely thank you for taking part in the debate.

[Yanukovych, interrupting] Thank you, Mr Melnychuk.

[Presenter] Thank you, dear viewers. This was the final TV debate in the runoff round between presidential candidates, Viktor Yushchenko and Viktor
Yanukovych.

[Yanukovych, interrupting] Goodbye.

[Melnychuk] Ukraine, make your choice.